Quote:
Originally Posted by pokertramp
bb, did you see the Official Statment from Kahnawa:ke regarding AP?
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For the record, the Kahnewake investigation is a joke.
*Joe Norton claims 100% ownership of Tokewiro.
*Tokewiro claims 100% ownership of AP and UB.
*Joe Norton is one of the founders of KGC and one of the most powerful and influential members of the Kahnewake tribe. Having the KGC investigate one of their own is in itself (in my opinion) a blatant conflict of interest.
*Scott Tom, founder of AP, is very likely still in control of the company.
*Scott Tom was directly linked to the AP superuser account.
Anyone who still plays at these sites (or promotes them) is basically saying it's ok to cheat. Allowing these sites to continue to operate just encourages other sites to do the same. It's up to us as players and affiliates to police the industry and ensure that the rooms we play and promote are honest and ethical. As affiliates, we owe that to our players. That's my 2 cents...
Read the very long and very detailed threads on 2plus2 for all the details.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=214625
Also look at the AP super user thread.
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...1#Post12588986
And check out the Absolute Detectives website.
http://www.absolutedetectives.com/twiki/bin/view/
Additionally, this is a link to the latest discussion on CAP about AP/UB...
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...ad.php?t=27203
In this discussion, Professor makes the following statement...
Quote:
Guys at this point we feel like Absolute Poker is taking the necessary steps to ensure that something like this does not occur again.
The same fraudulent PLAYERS (Ex employees and prior owner) that took advantage of a security loophole at Ultimate Bet were responsible for the incidents which took place here. Those security breachs have been fixed at both properties and the company is actively pursuing legal action against those involved.
All effected players are being made whole and management does take the problems very seriously.
It's a sad commentary on human nature that for as long as there has been gambling there have been players who cheat. Casinos and Poker Rooms both online and offline spend billions of dollars a year on security to minimize the cheating, but there is no 100% fool proof method to stop it.
Have there been cheats at highly regarded poker rooms like Binions, Belagio, Mirage,Venetian, MGM Grand or Caesers Palace? Absolutely. Has there been colusion between dealers or even pit bosses and cheating players? Absolutely. Does the general public demand that every Casino or Poker Room which has had cheaters attack their business be closed? No.
Is it fair or reasonable to try to close down an online operator for the same problems, even if they do everything they can to repair the damages done? I dont think so. If you do then by all means drop promotion of that casino or poker room, but dont expect everyone else who plays there or promotes them to follow suit.
The other issue we face at CAP/PAP is we are working with Chipleader, the affiliate program, and they had no hand in any of this at all. Why penalize them when they have always been very supportive of our community?
If the issue was Chipleader was shaving stats or stealing players from affiliate accounts and there was ubstantive evidence to support a claim then that would be grounds for immediate decertification. That isn't what happened.
Pokerkeep I know you are probably not going to agree with this and not everyone is going to be happy with our decision, but I hope you understand it.
Anyone who is NOT comfortable promoting these brands should drop them and move to Poker Rooms you prefer to work with. It's your business and you have to do what you think is best for your players and we support that.
For the players and affiliates that do continue to work with Chipleader or play at these poker rooms we support your decision.
Personally I do not feel like my players are in dire straits if they play at either Absolute Poker or Ultimate Bet. I also appreciate the fact that they stayed with US players and affiliates throughout the UIGEA storm and didnt take the easy route and head for shore like many others did. I value that loyalty and it weighs heavily in my decision on which Poker Rooms I agressively promote and which ones I dont.
Thats where we are at.
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Editor
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Greg backed up the Professor with this ridiculous post...
Obviously it takes a little time for everyones comfort level to return when promoting Chipleader brands (Absolute and Ultimate Bet). From our perspective, top level as affiliates, Chipleader has always been fair and timely on payments, new creatives, new promotions and competitive deposit bonuses. Not to mention they stayed in the US market and gave us another great converting option for our US traffic. There were definitely some questionable (alright, really bad) decisions to allow access to employees but it seemed single cased. In other words, if everyone who worked at AP had been given this software backdoor access then there would have been mass cheating and they would have been exposed years ago. This didn't happen; and the single case was dealt with quickly once made aware of.
Please feel free to read through the entire finding and ruling here:
http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommi...GC-AP-0111.pdf
With the sanctions being imposed, I cant think of a more safe place to play poker online right now than AP. As affiliates they provide us with the tools we need to be successful. As a player you have a decision to make (as with any room you deposit at). Any room being operated under a microscope is great for us. You'll see less fraud and collusion here than most other rooms from here out on AP/UB.
This is my response to CAP's official stand on the issue (and Greg's post)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greg 
With the sanctions being imposed, I cant think of a more safe place to play poker online right now than AP. As affiliates they provide us with the tools we need to be successful. As a player you have a decision to make (as with any room you deposit at). Any room being operated under a microscope is great for us. You'll see less fraud and collusion here than most other rooms from here out on AP/UB.
These are the same types of comments people made after the AP scandal was investigated and resolved. (before UB was accused of the same crime)
I guess it's a good thing there aren't any other major brands in the AP/UB stable... otherwise we'd likely be hearing the same assurances again next year.
Doesn't it scare the hell out of you that not one person in charge of the AP investigation thought to check into the possibility that UB could be compromised in the same manner. They were owned and managed by the same cheats after all.
And the so called investigation... they were basically investigating themselves and only after allowing the cheating to go unchecked for well over a year. The UB cheating would still be going on if the "players" hadn't forced them to admit there was a problem with the NIONIO account.
You're right Professor, I don't agree with your decision. As far as I'm concerned AP/UB are rotten to the core. They've shown no interest in protecting the players. Instead, they continued to deny any wrong doing and whitewash the results of the investigations.
Full disclosure? Yep, that would help. Not likely gonna happen though...
Where do you play
Tournament play there is so tight it's easy for me to win fairly consistently - consistently enough that I make withdrawals regularly. 
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